Sat 6 Feb 2010
WAY DOWN UNDER IN A LAND MEDIUM UNDERDONE
An article in the hilariously abrasive CREEM magazine of yore (and many years yore at that) once posited that the amazing thing wasn’t that George Harrison had subconsciously and accidentally incorporated portions of the Chiffons’ song He’s So Fine into his own hit My Sweet Lord, but that he’d done so in such a blatant and cack-handed fashion that he’d somehow managed to convince a judge in a court of law that he’d done it. *
To me, the amazing thing about the court decision that Men At Work’s famous national baggage, Down Under, plagiarised the well-known children’s earache, Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree, is that when I looked up from first reading a report about it, the date-line didn’t read “April 1st”.
For clarity’s sake, I have to make a few points here.
1 – I am no fan, friend or booster of Men At Work, Colin Hay, Ron Strykert, Greg Ham, or any other member or former flute roadie thereof. I’ve never thought of Men At Work’s music as being anything other than an annoyance similar to a gigantic blowfly buzzing in through an open window in summer, except that you can at least give the blowfly a face-full of bug spray, a practice which it is, for better or worse, illegal to do to members of Men At Work under current federal and state law.
2 – If I never hear the song “Down Under” again, it will be several millennia too soon.
3 – I have never knowingly, or at least within memory, had any dealings – good, bad, indifferent or all of the above – with Larrikin Music, or its apparent owners, or parent company, or whatever they are, the UK publishing conglomerate, the enchantingly named Music Sales Group.
4 – Grand Australian tradition though it may well be, it would probably double my remaining life-span to never hear the song about the kookaburra again either.
Never, and I mean, in the timeless phrasing of pro wrestler/wordsmith Chris Jericho, “Neh-eh-eh-eh-EVER!!” in the 37 million or so times I, along with every other living Australian who hasn’t passed away from exposure to this song, have been subjected to Men At Work’s notorious ear-wash “Down Under” have I ever noticed that the flute line quoted “Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree”.
That’s a guarantee. 100% truth. Right to this day. I can sit here right now, with the famous mental toothache “Down Under” coming unbidden to mind, and not remember one part that to me sounded like the kookaburra song. Never occurred to me.
Now, enough people are saying it that there must be something to it – i.e. that there is some quotation in the flute part of “Down Under” that sounds like the kookaburra song. According to court testimony, apparently Colin Hay even sang part of the freaking kookaburra song on stage in 2002 during performances of “Down Under”.
(Actually, I have no idea what that proves. I worked out years ago, before it was anything like common knowledge that you can sing the whole of the Gilligan’s Island theme lyric to the tune of the Australian national anthem, or vica-versa, and the words fit the music perfectly. I strongly doubt the composition of one musical item had any influence on the other in that case - the fact that we, in many ways, clearly ARE living on Gilligan’s Island notwithstanding.)
The point I’m making is that, as with all Australians, I’ve been exposed to this song roughly as often as I’ve been exposed to direct sunlight, and perhaps to ultimately the same effect, and in all that time I’ve never once been struck to note, “Ah yes, the flute part is the kookaburra song.”
Here’s the other point. Larrikin’s lawyer stated they were after 40 to 60% of the income derived from the song. The song made the tens of millions of dollars it did because it was a WORLDWIDE hit.
So what percentage of people around the world, or even here for that matter, bought/loved/confirmed-their-taste-buds-were-located-in-their-rear-underpant-area-by-listening-to, the song “Down Under” specifically because they were enchanted by the way a bit of the flute diddley supposedly brought all the joy of “Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree” flying to mind?
To start with, I think it would be ridiculously kind to the Larrikin music side of the case to suggest that even 50% of the overseas market concerned even knew what that kookaburra song was. Overseas was the exact location that the real money came from. If we were talking about the royalties that came in from Australia alone, I doubt we’d be talking about a court case at all. Comparatively speaking the two parties could have split the difference and bought each other a cup of coffee, and the only argument would be over who had to pay for the biscuits.
Secondly, what made the song a hit, other than a worldwide intermission in anything resembling taste. Well, the song did. The music, very much the lyrics, the singer’s delivery of the song, the production, the engineering, the mixing, the instrumentation (including use of the wretched flute), the instrumental performances, the arrangement, and no doubt several million accountants’ headaches worth of promotion, advertising and marketing.
One part of one part of that was a guy playing a flute. Was the flute part of the sound that made the song “work” as well as it did? Well, maybe. Or “why not?”. Or “to a degree”. Would it have sold more, less or the same without a flute part? Who knows? All you can really say for certain is that the flute was a conspicuous part of the sound of the track.
But for argument’s sake, let’s all hold hands around the copyright séance table, (adjacent to the “assessing musical/monetary worth of the whole via constituent parts” ouija board), and agree momentarily that the flute being present on the record contributed to some degree to the track’s success.
Assessing how much it contributed to that success, as with the peculiar alchemy of just about any hit record, is (given all the other factors mentioned earlier, and that wasn’t necessarily anywhere near an exclusive list) completely impossible. So let’s for the hell of it say it’s 5% of the value of the song just being there.
(I’ll just point out that unless there’s some arrangement I’m unaware of in this case, that “5% value” wouldn’t be recognised in any songwriting royalty arrangement, as the composers were listed as Colin Hay and Ron Strykert. There may be some performance royalty payable to Greg Ham as the woodwind guy in the band, but I’d be guessing that this wouldn’t amount to 5% of the entire value of all money recouped from the song.)
And the next question that lurches into the starting gate is, of course, how much of that 5% specifically comes down to the flute part supposedly being derived from that timeless wonder of Australian musical fauna, “Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree”?
Or to put it another way, if he’d have played any other diddley-widdley flute line that came to mind and vaguely fit in with the rest of the music, how much difference could it have possibly made to the overall worldwide sales of the song?
Considering that, to me, the only part of the song where I’ve ever vaguely noticed what the flute guy was actually playing, was the introduction, and for the life of me, I can’t find any connection between that and the melody I’m familiar with, as part of unwanted lifelong mental luggage, as “Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree”, the answer for me would be “None”. No difference at all. Had the guy instead blown his nose into the flute while performing the correct fingering for The Jetsons theme, I wouldn’t have noticed any difference.
My question is, if the flute line had been there, incorporated into the arrangement in the same manner, been in the same key, but hadn’t incorporated any material from the kookaburra song, would it have made one Transylvanian pfennig’s worth of difference to the song’s international success and royalties haul?
There’s only one rational answer to that question, I reckon. No. It didn’t, it couldn’t, and not even in a science-fiction movie in which Gary Coleman ruled a world of robot dinosaurs, assisted by former members of Bananarama, would it have been possible for this ever to make one iota of difference in the sales of the song “Down Under”.
However, according to everyone else, who can hear it where I can’t, there is a bit of the kookaburra song quoted in the flute part, somewhere in the track “Down Under”. The reality is, if they quoted it, even fleetingly (although that would also probably depend on how fleetingly, but let’s skip over that for now) and the song has a copyright holder (and it does) there is some financial obligation on the part of the quote-er to recompense the quote-ee.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but in a movie, if anyone even sings the Happy Birthday song we still all suffer on an annual basis at birthday parties spanning the globe, there’s always a listing in the musical acknowledgement section of the credits, because even that song had writers, and apparently still has a legal owner.
Then the question becomes, what do the Men At Work guys really, logically, fairly, owe the kookaburra song copyright holders, in terms of the impact that musical quotation made in worldwide sales. And I tell you what, if we’re talking MC Hammer’s use of the Rick James riff from Super Freak in the historical Hammer hit You Can’t Touch This, and I’m the guy in charge, I’d say, well, that’s significant usage. The riff from the former is an integral part of the latter. If it were me and I were assessing it, I’d say you could figure that as being in the 10’s of percentage of the later song’s worth, whether 10% or 15% or 20%, or whatever.
(Don’t ask me what the actual agreement/figure was – I wouldn’t have a clue. I’m not even aware of what the standard arrangement for something like that is, or if there is one. I’m just trying to make a comparative point here. Don’t bust my pants-bulbs over it.)
In the case of Men At Work vs Kookaburra Up Tree, I’m saying, taking all salient facts into consideration with a deeply furrowed brow and judge-wig at a comical angle, I reckon it’s worth about one-squiffteenth of 1%, and not a penny more, Stephanie.
I reckon if Men At Work end up having to pay much more than their opposition’s parking fees for the duration of the trial, they’ve been taken to the cleaners.
It matters to some minor degree that there is a flute part in “Down Under”. Quite frankly if the same guy had been featured in the mix in the same way, and had played the alien theme from Close Encounters of the Third Kind throughout, or the Ron Grainer theme tune from Steptoe and Son for that matter, in place of the appropriation of some portion of the kookaburra song, the total difference to overall world sales would have been in the close vicinity of exactly zero per cent.
In the court of Leapster, I find, grudgingly, for the plaintiff, and award them the total of seven $10 parking stubs, and a weekly travel-card for the junior legal assistant who doesn’t own their own car. Parties to pay their own costs, and ensure I never hear either accursed song involved in the dispute ever again, on pain of torture. Case disgraced, and dismissed.
In conclusion, let me point out that Americans previously used to refer to the kookaburra as the “laughing jackass” and had the Americans concerned lived to see this day, they would have been gratified to find out that they were at least half right.
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* There is apparently a hilarious postscript to this case which most people I think are unaware of. Usually you just hear the part about how Harrison was taken to court for unconsciously plagiarising He’s So Fine in his song My Sweet Lord, and that’s where the story stops.
I’ll precis this quickly here, but you can get the full details on the Wikipedia site.
When the My Sweet Lord/He’s So Fine case first came to trial in late 1976, the legendary music business shark/lawyer Allen “ABKCO” Klein was assisting Harrison (his one-time Beatles client) as his legal adviser. However by the time the trial got around to the business end some years later in 1981, Klein had actually become the plaintiff, as in the interim he’d purchased Bright Tunes, which owned the copyright for the Ronald Mack song “He’s So Fine”.
In the end, and facing a situation in which you had one guy at least in part having figured on both sides of the one case, the judge ordered that Harrison purchase Bright Tunes from Klein for the US$587,000 Klein had paid for it.
Somehow, and I think the “somehow” basically comes down to Klein being involved, legal dispute over this managed to last for a further TEN YEARS, before the aforementioned decision was upheld. So, in the end, dear old George presumably ended up owning both “My Sweet Lord” and “He’s So Fine” anyway.
Maybe Klein then phoned him up to volunteer to represent him in any appeal over the plagiarism finding. I wouldn’t put it past him. I can only think that if Klein fought for ten years over the matter, that the $587,000 figure must have actually been what he paid for it, despite any alternative suspicions that might otherwise automatically leap to mind. I’d guess it would have killed him not to make a profit on the sale. I still find it hard to believe he didn’t, actually.
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14 Responses to “KOOKABURRA SHITS ON THE ROYALTIES”
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February 8th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
What I find amusing is that the director of Larrikin Music didn’t even twig that it was similar, until it was pointed out on spicks and specks. So he actually copied that idea from them.
Should Myf Warhurst sue Larrikin music for a slice of their payout, if it was her who had broadcast that idea originally? When will this madness stop?
The thing that sickens me about this is that the publisher simply owns the rights to ‘kookaburra’. It’s not like the original author had felt ripped off her whole life, and decided late on her death bed that, yes, let’s go for it, we’ll sue Men At Work for theft of my song. It was an opportunistic attempt at extortion that has been upheld by a federal court! Was Barnaby Joyce’s Dad the judge?
February 10th, 2010 at 11:35 am
I’m hoping “where the madness stops” is when they come to working out the amount the Men at Work guys and/or record companies concerned have to pay Larrikin/Music Sales Group, and the final figure is announced as a $5 Myer card plus a $4 beverage and cookie offer, valid at a franchise coffee operation.
Unfortunately at this point, I’m not so optimistic about that.
The bit I’m kind of curious about is how, along the way, the rights to the kookaburra song - which as I understand it, were willed by the composer to the Girl Guides, or something like that - ended up with Larrikin. I’m not suggesting that anything untoward happened - I just don’t understand that transition.
Anyway, that’s not entirely germane to the issue. As I said at length above, I don’t have a problem with someone who abstracts part of someone else’s song for use in their own work having to pay the other party a consideration for that use.
But if logic and commonsense, and for that matter, fairness, are to have anything to do with the proceedings, the extent of that use within the “new” work has to be taken into consideration, and also its importance in any financial success the “new” work has or had.
In this case, it seems pretty obvious to me that the abstraction from the kookaburra song was minor, its subsequent part in Men At Work’s subsequent noseblow of a composition was negligible at best, and any effect such abstraction ultimately had on worldwide sales of “Down Under” was probably so infinitesmal as to be unworthy of any further thought whatsoever.
Honestly, in my opinion, if Larrikin get so much as change for the parking meter out of this, they’re making out like bandits.
February 12th, 2010 at 5:40 am
Using the court’s rationale, every 12 bar blues song performer could be sued by the one before him/her. Whoever owns Leadbelly’s estate will end up with a trillion zillion dollars.
February 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Actually, that’s an interesting point, re the Leadbelly stuff. I’m not sure if there is a current owner, or whether that stuff is in the public domain. He was acknowledged as the composer of such later rock hits as “Midnight Special” and “Black Betty”. My Creedence comp CD with “Midnight Special” on it lists the credit as “trad. arranged Fogerty”, which, if an updated listing, suggests his stuff is public domain. I’ve found at least one website which claims all his material is public domain, for whatever that’s worth.
The implications of the Men v Kookaburra court case are perhaps not quite as dire and entirely unworkable as the one you suggest, although if anyone was to say that the difference was a fine line, one could arguably see the point.
Basically this is a case in which one song was found to have incorporated a portion of another copyright-protected song without acknowledgement or recompense.
(As opposed to, say, a blues chord pattern which is such common coin that establishing original ownership is next to impossible to start with, and any determined and thoroughgoing legal pursuit of which would bring the entire music industry to a standstill, or more of a standstill than it’s at already, due to other factors.)
There must be numerous existing legal/payment precedents for incorporating part of an existing song into a new one - courtesy of the proliferation of examples of the practice of “sampling” via hip-hop, and other music which involved incorporation of previously existing tracks via electronic/mechanical means in a “new” work.
They shouldn’t have to open up the proverbial whole new can of whup-ass to work out what, if anything, the owners of the kookaburra song are due for any use of that musical artefact in the Men At Work song “Down Under”.
To me, any use of the older tune in the Men At Work song is negligible, and any benefit the latter song received in terms of sales figures due specifically to the incorporation of some part of the kookaburra song via the flute line is indeterminable, and, in my opinion (reasoning given in main article) effectively non-existent.
With the court having determined that Men At Work abstracted part of a copyright-protected song for use in “Down Under”, one imagines there’s an obligation to then impose a penalty, or levy or however you want to phrase it.
My suggestion would be that any future use of the song, in terms of new album or single pressings (if any), or use in a movie or TV soundtrack (in the cases where listings of this nature are mandatory) should carry a composition credit something like “Written by Hay/Strykert, incorporating material by (whatever the lady’s name was, who wrote the kookaburra song), with the names of all appropriate publishing companies for both groups included. Then I’d award the Larrikin/Music Sales Group people who own the kookaburra song one cent (1c). Not per copy previously sold, not per copy sold in the future, not per play on radio, jukebox, movie screening, TV usage, or anything like that. I’d award them one cent, full stop, and tell them to get the hell out of my courtroom. And everyone concerned can pay their own costs, and receive a dire warning never to darken the nation’s courtrooms with opportunistic navel lint like this case ever again. Actually it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if the plaintiffs were ordered to pay Men At Work’s legal costs as well. And I’d still only give them one cent, and probably in New Zealand money at that, if this were legally possible.
February 14th, 2010 at 8:51 am
The issue with old blues songs is a little different. I believe - and I could be wrong on this - that copyright exists until 50 years after the composer’s death. So for someone like Robert Johnson, who died in 1938, artists would have been obliged to pay royalties until 1988. So if the Stones had covered “Stop Breaking Down” in 1989 instead of 1972, they wouldn’t have had to name him as the composer. I think that’s how it works.
Regarding this local matter, I still can’t believe this even went to court, it’s such a tiny and insignificant part of the song (actually you could argue that “Down Under” is a tiny and insignificant song - at least going by quality). It’s not like say that Greenday song which sounded an awful lot like “Picture Book” by the Kinks. That was a far more noticeable portion of the song, that any non-musician I’ve played it to can spot instantly. I’m still struggling to see the shameful ripoff with the deadly flute melody mentioned above.
February 14th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
A few points/clarifications:
You can’t copyright chord progressions, only melodies. Therefore, the only way you can (potentially) infringe on the copyright of an old blues song is if you cop the melody (the chord progression is immaterial).
Also, is it strictly necessary for everyone to establish their ‘hip’ credentials by giving their opinion on the ‘quality’ of Down Under? (Talk about an easy target - why doesn’t someone come out and say that Tex Perkins can’t sing or that Nick Cave couldn’t rock his way out of a wet paper bag?)
Using a set of critical criterion that Leapster himself outlined in these pages, it seems to me that Men At Work’s, fairly obvious, goal was to write and record a catchy faux-reggae pop song with local references sprinkled semi-humorously throughout. Did they achieve that artistic goal? Absolutely. On all counts.
I’ve heard it too many times to derive any pleasure out of listening to it too, but if I’d seen Citizen Kane 500 times I’d probably feel much the same way about that. Over-exposure to anything, by definition, leads to a certain antipathy towards it.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Mark S. - not sure about how copyright works for songs. But if it was 50 years, they could still name him as composer. (And I’d say should name him.) They just wouldn’t have to pay him anything. I’m not sure anyone has a current copyright on Johnson’s songs or the recordings. The official Sony/Columbia version would only have reproduction rights on those particular cleaned-up versions of the tracks. Other people have issued the same Johnson recordings in the interim, only they’ve done their own processing on the tracks.
And in the case of the old blues guys (or any old guys, I guess, for that matter) it would be a matter of who, if anyone, had the rights and maintained them (i.e. kept renewing the copyright).
Re your comments about the Men v Kookaburra case even going to court, and the elusive nature of the “offending” flute quotation to your ears, well, obviously I’d be struggling to agree any more than I already do.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:27 am
surelypaul -
- presuming you’re right about the chord progressions not being material in any copyright proceedings, we’re left with a funny situation, which is that in a lot of those REAL old blues songs, it would be bordering on impossible to identify the melodic content. Most of the obscure stuff is well and truly out of any copyright consideration anyway, and that includes the recordings which are public domain. I’m talking about 78s recorded in the 20s and 30s.
- re “hip credentials”. My guess is that no-one’s trying to be “hip” here, least of all me. (If they came to this site to be “hip” they need a new Melways.)
As far as I’m concerned, the song is, was, and always will be flibbety-jibbety, featherweight, suck-up commercial poop - an assessment I (and, I daresy, many others) had long since arrived at prior to the current court case. Just so you know exactly where I’m coming from on this, I’ll state my position clearly - in any discussion of significant pop/contemporary music from 1950-present, “Down Under” is completely inconsequential in any way. I consider it to have slightly less cultural and artistic value than the “Louie the Fly” jingle used in Mortein commercials over the years. Whether or not this evaluation raises my status in the halls of hipness, I could not give a baboon’s rectum about.
- OK, Nick Cave couldn’t rock his way out of a wet paper bag. I’ll go further. I don’t think he can rock out AT ALL. However, I don’t think Tex Perkins “can’t sing”. (Same goes for Nick Cave, actually.) I don’t think he’s got a classic or great voice. But singing (post-1950 pop/contemporary area) is about interpretation. There’s plenty of people with oddball voices who could sing. Mick Jagger doesn’t have a classic “singer’s voice” like either of the Everly’s or John Lennon or Paul McCartney. Mick Jagger can sing just fine. People like Whitney Houston and John Farnham have big voices, but they aren’t much as singers. I’d rather hear Keith Richards gravel his way through a song every day of the week, because he sounds like he means it and he’s living it, while those other “big voice” types are doing aerobatic flip-flops and ice-dancing moves with their big voices, for no apparent reason.
I’m not a huge fan of Tex’s music, but I’d never agree he “couldn’t sing”. Incidentally, whatever opinion one does or doesn’t hold re Tex Perkins or Nick Cave has nothing to do with Men At Work or “Down Under”, at least as far as I can see.
- Re the “critical criterion I outlined in these pages” - you only read part of it. I was outlining a critical process I use, which I was suggesting would have to be at the core of any criticism/review process worth having, in terms of trying to communicate something vaguely objective to a reader/audience.
The first part was, assessing what the artist/s was trying to do. That’s the part you’ve dealt with. And I agree with you so far as that goes. (Especially about the “semi-humourously”.) That was presumably their aim, give or take, as much as anyone could know without asking them. I tend to agree with you that, within those parameters, they achieved it.
But there’s another part (at least) to reviewing a work analytically. The “Was this trip really necessary?” part. Having established the artist’s aims, and whether or not they achieved success within those aims, you have to ask the question about how high, or low, those aims stand in the greater scheme of things. (Let’s say a ‘greater scheme of things’ in which the Beatles’ best work stands as a generally accepted benchmark of high achievement within this vague area of pop music, and the Crazy Frog mobile phone song as the lowest point, for example.)I’d put “Down Under” and all it’s faux-reggae pastel “love us - we’re completely inoffensive” dippy-tuned, all-Aussie suck-up lyric-containing majesty a lot closer to the Crazy Frog end of the scale than the Beatles end. I’d say it’s Racey, but not as energetic, or Brotherhood of Man, but with wittier lyrics. (Some national anthems have wittier lyrics than the Brotherhood of Man’s songs. Including the Spanish one, which doesn’t have any lyrics.)
It’s located somewhere about that section of the scale, anyway. I wouldn’t put it in the same universe as one of the lesser/lighter Bruce Springsteen songs, for example, and I’m not even that big a Springsteen fan. I could say exactly the same thing about some about “Down Under” compared to U2’s pop songs, and I’m not remotely a U2 fan at all.
But even there, there’s a completely different level of ambition and achievement at work.
It’s definitely not enough just to assess what the artist tried to do, say they did it and leave it there. That’s a nonsense. It’s only part of the process.
Otherwise, you’d say of some bone-headed horror movie - “Well, the guy was trying to put a lot of fake gore in a movie and sell tickets and he didn’t care about the story, the acting, or the dialogue. And he completely succeeded! A job well done.”
Obviously if you’re trying to write critically, you don’t just leave it there.
And another part of the job - more tenuous, but still part of the critical process - after assessing the aim of the work, and whether or not the people concerned achieved this aim, was whether it could have been done better, or achieved in another way. I mean, the Beatles and the Knack were both trying to write, perform and record pop songs with two electric guitars, bass and drums. Both, to an extent, succeeded. If we leave it there, we’ve achieved and communicated virtually nothing of value. You have to also consider, in that case, historical context, lyrical content, comparative arrangements, and probably comparisons to work others have done.
Within the aims you’re suggesting, there was more than one way to skin that cat. Did Men at Work choose the best way possible, in the best of all worlds? Was that as good as a song like that could have been? Did it have to be ‘faux-reggae’ and if so why? Did he have to try and sing like Sting? Was Dave Warner’s “Just a Suburban Boy” not a much more funny and apt capturing of certain Australian values in a humourous pop song? If so, couldn’t they have shot a bit higher with their lyric?
All these kinds of questions. These are just examples off the top of me head. If you don’t ask these sorts of questions, in addition to the one of mine you isolated, what sort of job can you have done in attempting to communicate to someone else the relative value of the item you were reviewing?
Communication has to be the aim of the game incidentally. If we’re all just parroting our preferences without any attempt at explanation, comparison, or substantiation, it just gets back to everyone saying their farts smell better than everyone else’s.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Leaps, thanks for your considered, incredibly well-written response to my (mostly ill thought out) post; it was probably more than it deserved.
On reflection, I also am not sure why I used a ‘Down Under’ discussion to take off-topic cheap shots at Cave and Perkins. (Perkins can’t sing by the way: I don’t care what sort of timbre his voice has, if he can’t sing in key he can’t sing; his ‘guest star’ version of ‘You Can’t always Get What You Want’ on a choir show I was watching last year (don’t ask) was appalling, hardly pitched a single note. Jagger would have been turning in his…oh, hang on. And, as for that Ladyboyz album: Shit Sandwich.
I concede that by claiming that I was using a critical process that you outlined, and then only using one aspect of it showed very little intellectual rigour on my part. I apologise. The point you make about asking further questions after ‘Did they achieve their aims?’ is of course very important. My answer of “yes” to that question (in the case of Men At Work and ‘Down Under’) was meaningless unless I had then asked the corollary ‘Were the aims themselves interesting, set high enough, ground-breaking, etc, etc?’ (ie. ‘was the trip really necessary?’ as you put it).
PS Re: the Stingish vocals. Now that you mention it, Men At Work do come across as a poor man’s Police.
PPS I liked Racey.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:43 am
I liked Leo Sayer. Keep it under your hats.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Is it true the firm that sued Men at Work is going to change its name to Them Crooked Kookaburras?
February 18th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
I’ve seen Nick live many times, and ‘rock’ is indeed what he does do perfectly. He jumps about, points a lot, howls into the mic, glares, kicks, prances… the boy can rock out. Say what you will about his songs and voice, but I’ll not have this ‘Nick can’t rock’ argument on my watch!
I’ve had it with these introspective rockstars who are barely animated manniquins on stage because they’re too busy connecting with the Earth or their feelings or whatever.
Give me a fucken show!
Tony: I like Fleetwood Mac. There. I said it.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:44 am
Perseus,
So do I. There’s just a king-size caveat attached that it depends a great deal on which Fleetwood Mac we’re talking about.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:59 am
I’d say “rock out” is what do you on the tracks, and via the live music. What you’re talking about is being a frontman. Bands like the MC5, Ramones, Sonic’s Rendezvous Band, the Devil Dogs, and, yes, the original (Peter Green/Jeremy Spencer) Fleetwood Mac “rock out”. Nick Cave couldn’t rock out in a medium-to-large avalanche. It’s just not there in the music. If you think he’s a good front-man, then fine. Al Jolson was a great on-stage performer, and didn’t rock at all. It wasn’t a problem for him. But there’s no rock’n'roll in Nick Cave that I can hear. It’s all stiff-legged psychodrama and cod-Southern (US) Gothicism. I’ll pay the last couple of Birthday Party eps, but he didn’t “rock out” there either. It was sort of loud, atonal hairy art-rock. Lux Interior did everything you credit Nick Cave for onstage, and more, and he was the real deal - he had the rock’n'roll fire in him. Whatever Nick Cave does, and I’m not saying it is or isn’t valid, or saying that people shouldn’t like it, when it comes to rock’n'roll and his music rocking out, he’s like the footballers Jack Dyer would dismiss with the famous line “He can’t fire.” Nick Cave is kind of like Tom Jones Goes to Gothworld, minus the voice.